Talk:Ingame References

Pillar of Ice and Flame

"The Pillar of Ice and Flame is a reference to an object in Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross called the Frozen Flame. This object would allow its user to time travel, as well as manipulate dimensions and events in previous times. In the end, the object was actually a fragment of a greater alien entity called the Lavos."

I call BS on this. --GreyDog 16:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

o.o you don't think the frozen flame is connected to Lavos? its kinda blatant if you make it to the end of the game... ^^ okay, purposeful misunderstandings aside.. the Radical Dreamers part might not be the case since its a rather unknown text based sequel (official, but only released in japan) to chrono trigger that falls between the two games. The info about Lavos, or rather, the time devourer that lavos gives birth to is to help ppl understand a certain letter that is left to ppl in the first mission.. --Sleepy Kitty 23:46, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I can actually see that, especially since the entire aesthetic of Ouroboros makes me think of the time machine Epoch, and the floating Kingdom of Zeal, from the preceding game in the series Chrono Trigger. Plangkye 06:46, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

This Page

o,o and there we go! of course, there's a debate about expanding this, so this page might go away soon and be split into a dozen pages instead... in the mean time, a space to drop these into until things get more complicated! (and why is everyone waiting for me to make these instead of doing them themselves?) --Sleepy Kitty 14:07, 26 October 2006 (PDT)

Category?

Perhaps we need a new category. In-jokes doesn't seem to fit in my opinion. - Snorii 07:23, 29 October 2006 (PST)

o.o well... a number of them are.. at least what was first added was, what we have now isn't as such anymore ^^;; you'll note that above I mention that this will probably be split into several categories.. perhapse split it and have the overall category page be under in-jokes? --Sleepy Kitty 11:16, 29 October 2006 (PST)

Issues

I've started populating the issues section. They are usually named for chapters in books. There used to be a link on the official boards talking about this, but I can't find it. I don't remember all of them.

Issue 2: A Shadow of the Past Issue 3: A Council of War Issue 4: Colosseum Issue 5: Forest of Dread Issue 6: City of Villains Issue 7: A Hero's Destiny Manifest Issue 8: Break Through

Rachael Storm 07:01, 1 March 2007 (PST)

I listed some of those here, Talk:Issues - Snorii 08:01, 1 March 2007 (PST)

• "Through the looking glass" - Chapter 1 of Alice in Wonderland
• "A shadow of the past" - Chapter 2 of The Two Towers
• "A Council of War" - Chapter 12 of Treasure Island
• "The Colosseum" - Chapter 34 of The Count of Monte Cristo

You're so smart, Snorii :D Rachael Storm 08:42, 1 March 2007 (PST)

I'd love to take credit, but all of those came from the official forums.  :) - Snorii 10:45, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Just say "Thank you Rachael" :D Rachael Storm 14:22, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Thank you Rachael. :D - Snorii 14:33, 1 March 2007 (PST)

For what it's worth, Chapter 11 of Stan Lee's autobiography, Excelsior!, was titled "Along Came a Spider", the same as the name of Issue 6, or as titled above, City of Villains. - True Marksman 02:47, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Dark Waters

I previously added that 'Dark Waters, a zone in Brickstown might refer to The Pirates of Dark Water and the evil substance known as "Dark Water" that was consuming the alien world of Mer. After thinking about it, I'm pretty sure this isn't the case though. I vaguely remember either Statesman or Manticore saying something about Brickstown and references to Mesopotamia. - Snorii 10:44, 1 March 2007 (PST)

Salvage

I hope it's OK, but I've added a category for Salvage with the opening of Issue 9 to the public. I decided to do this when I was on test and received the salvage of "Inanimate Carbon Rod" and immediately got the reference.

Coffee

The Paragon City main font file explicitly states that it was based on the Eight O'Clock Coffee text. Not sure where one would put this, but this article seems the prime candidate.

Police Band Missions

OK, I admit I'm not the biggest Bowie expert in the world or anything, but are we sure the reference for Mazzy Stardusk is correct? Every time I see that name, the first thing that comes to my mind is a Mazzy Star reference. Maybe there's a common thread between the two (that I haven't managed to find)? --Eabrace 17:04, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

Maybe it's a combo reference to both Ziggy Stardust and Mazzy Star? Just like Clive Loveking is a reference to Clive Barker, Stephen King, and H.P. Lovecraft all rolled up in one. RagabashMoon 05:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Mundane Weapons

Why do we have a list of weapons here? The fact that the game has an "uzi" in it is not really a reference to anything.--GreyDog 15:08, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

I was thinking the same thing when I was adding Talsorian the other day. Probably best to move them to their own article. (Not Talsorian though. ;) ) - Snorii 16:02, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm also in agreement that we should move it to its own page. Especially as the game expands and more kinds of weapons may appear, many of which people may not know the difference between and might thus find the explanation (or at least a wiki link) interesting.--Shinzakura 00:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Are they so interesting as to warrant their own article? --Jumping Jack 16:14, 29 October 2007 (EDT)

Honestly, I think we should just remove them.--GreyDog 10:56, 11 November 2007 (EST)

I agree that they do not belong here. However, it's clear that they were of enough interest to somebody because they were added, and I can see others finding the information interesting as well. I don't see that it would hurt to move it to a new page. And if we don't move it to a new page (and add a "See Also" link to it from here), I'd half expect to see the stuff get re-added by someone at some point in the future -- so, better to move it out of the way than eliminate it entirely just to have it come back, perhaps? :) -- Sekoia 19:13, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree fully with this and I'm currently building the new page on my sandbox page. Was thinking of calling the page List of Weapons and Equipment in Game, though I'd like some opinion on that as well. In any case, I'm hoping to have it up by the end of the week so that we can resolve this. Any thoughts?--Shinzakura 06:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd shorten the title to "Weapons and Equipment." Good luck! --GreyDog 15:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with GreyDog for the shorter title. Looks good so far. :) -- Sekoia 07:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

NPC Repeats

Humperdink (sic) and Vezzini/Vizzini (also sic) are in there twice - under Dr. Quaterfield's TF, and under Doc Delilah's storyarc. Are they truly in both, and what are their proper spellings? In the novel/film, they are Humperdinck and Vizzini. Aggelakis 04:00, 11 November 2007 (EST)

I'm curious about this as well, hopefully I will be able to run Dr. Q's TF some day and will be able to verify. I also haven't run through Doc Delilah's story arc yet, but that should be relatively easy to verify in comparison. - Snorii 14:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Black XIII

And I the only one who thought first of The Dark Tower, and Black Thirteen, the most dangerous of the Wizard's Glasses? Errickfoxy 09:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

It makes more sense to me that it would be a reference to the Dark Tower, especially considering the nature of Mordred in the novel.SunGryphon 19:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Croatoa Stuff

I'm not going to edit it myself, but I noticed the page says that SIDHE are a type of "ghost" from Irish folklore. Someone might check on this with someone who knows their Irish myth, as I'm not sure "ghost" is a good word to use.

Second, Tuatha de Dannan aren't mentioned, and if you are mentioning them, then a friend of mine was telling me about how by Irish myth, the Tuatha de Dannan as they are in City of Heroes should actually be called the Fir Bolg, as the Tuatha de Dannan were actually beautiful where as the Fir Bolg are beast creatures.

RagabashMoon 04:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Nemesis, Steampunk + Sci-Fi

Hey guys, Just been reading on Wikipedia about Jules Verne, Which led to Steampunk and about a future technological age where everything's Steam-powered.. Like the Nemesis.. Not sure if anyone wants to do anything about it. There doesn't seem to be any mention of it. Steam-Punk --Murf 19:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Poor Impulse Control Badge

Does anyone else think that the badge is a reference to the novel "Snow Crash"? It could just have to do with the psychological disorder, but I think it leans more to the tattoo Raven has on his forehead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pkfan2004 (talk • contribs) 08:45, October 5, 2009

Poor Impulse Control Badge

"Talsorian"

Two fold question actually...

Do we need to add something about why the term has been expunged from the game?

And do we need to remove or reword the mention here?

- OldeWolf 22:47, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

We should do something. I'd lean towards removing the entry entirely since it is no longer relevant. We could keep it for historical interest but there doesn't seem to be much point. If we do keep it we should definitely reword it to reflect the fact that it no longer applies and was (presumably) removed for copyright reasons. CmdrAdeon 23:02, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I would be in favor of moving the existing mention to a new "historical" section and rewording slightly to note that the reference was once in the game, but has since been removed. Unless we get some official mention from a developer on why it was removed, I would recommend that we not speculate on the reason for the removal. --Eabrace 00:47, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Done in similar fashion to other historical notes on the Talsorian -> Vanguard change. I made similar changes and notes to every reference to the word 'Talsorian' the search tool could find me yesterday. I also agree that speculation would be inappropriate, the wiki is supposed to be 'just the facts,' as they say. Draeth Darkstar 01:47, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Big McLargeHuge

Dr. Big McLargeHuge is a reference to MST3K. The many names of David Ryder - it's right around the 1:00 mark. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plangkye (talk • contribs) 06:40, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Time Lord

I suspect that the Time Lord Badge, which is awarded for being an experienced Time Traveler via the Cimeroran and Chronologist Badges, is a reference to the Time Lords (what The Doctor is) of Doctor Who. Anyone agree or disagree? Draeth Darkstar 19:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

o.o I suspect that you're right.. and can't believe that, that isn't on the list yet... --Sleepykitty 11:48, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll add it, then, since no one seems to disagree. Draeth Darkstar 19:28, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

As baffled as I am from the lack of doctor who references I don't think Time Lord is a Doctor Who Reference, in fact Epoch held the title of "lord of time" one year before the first Doctor Who series (Epoch was introduced in 1962 Doctor Who first premiered in 1963). while no other use of the title dates that far back it's also notable that Doctor Who only recently gained a great deal of worldwide fame. Mattwo 09:40, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Regardless of timeline (pun!), I think it is clear that BOTH were in existence well before the badge was created. And since Doctor Who is something even I had heard of well before first seeing the badge, I would imagine it may have had at least a touch of influence on the badge. Though, it could just as likely have nothing to do with anything.

Dev1: Say, what do we call a badge that is for time travelling?

Dev2: Ummmmm, Time Lord? That sounds cool.

—Thirty7 10:49, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

o.o;;; wow, now there's an obscure comic ref.. never heard of Epoch before. Sure, some of the devs are comic buffs to the extreme, but that one seems a bit less likely than whats probably the best know BBC show internationally.. --Sleepykitty 15:10, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I think it's best that we stick with the uncertain phrasing for the time being unless we get dev confirmation that it is a Doctor Who reference. I noticed a lot of other things that are a bit iffy to being actual references so I changed "is a" to more uncertain phrases like "is likely a" and "might/may be a". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattwo (talk • contribs) 02:02, 6 December 2011

Dido's View

It just occured to me the other day when running through the revamped Dark Astoria zone that the neighborhood Dido's View is probably a reference to the pop singer Dido. The following words from the song "Thank You" popped into my head as soon as I saw the neighborhood title pop up on my screen:

"The morning rain clouds up my window

And I can't see at all

And even if I could it'd all be gray"

Sounds a lot to me like what one's view out their window would've looked like in the original Dark Astoria. I also can't begin to figure out what else that neighborhood name would be referring to if it's not this. Any thoughts? Draeth Darkstar 14:16, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I suppose that's not impossible, but most zone neighborhoods followed some sort of common theme and that seems a departure from the presumed horror theme that Romero and Raimi seem to set up. --Eabrace 14:52, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose it would be a break from an overt horror theme, but depression and melancholy are close neighbors. Draeth Darkstar 15:45, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Could be (to me) that a closer resonance than that song would be: the background given in the play Dido Queen of Carthage; and especially the description from the related opera Dido and Aenis. These speak volumes of the supernaturual, mythic, horror, mystery, and perhaps melancholy of the place in old DA and the new. Taosin 16:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Also noting that Dido's view overlooks the Cemetery. I am ignoring fog or lack of visibility, as I am assuming the neighborhood names predate the fog of Echo: Dark Astoria and were given when it was simply Astoria. So, Dido is looking (from that neighborhood) over the cemetary... if that's any help. And aye may be a marvellous red-herring too. Taosin 16:17, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Dido's Lament: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido%27s_Lament could refer to the cemetary, as well. have to say thislament has a lot more resonance for DA in that location of Dido's view than the pop-singer's words! Taosin 16:26, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Thy hand, Belinda, darkness shades me,

On thy bosom let me rest,

More I would, but Death invades me;

Death is now a welcome guest.

When I am laid, am laid in earth, May my wrongs create

No trouble, no trouble in thy breast;

Remember me, remember me, but ah! forget my fate.

Remember me, but ah! forget my fate.

(Dido's Lament)

Taosin 23:11, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Dido's view is a real place, Carthage. Described in the Aenid 4.401- "What were your feelings Dido, then? What were the sighs you uttered at that sight, when far and wide from your high citadel, you saw the beaches boil and turmoil take the waters, with such a vast uproar before your eyes?"

Noting the Aenid ends with the journey to the underworld. Some ways similar to the journey characters take in new Dark Astoria as the arcs unfold. (IMHO) Taosin 23:11, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm willing to take any of the above as probably more likely than the initial thought I had, then. Way to make me feel illiterate, fellow editors.

I think that one thing is certain, though; it's definitely a reference to something, and we should probably make some kind of note about it in the Dark Astoria neighborhoods section. Draeth Darkstar 03:22, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm learning new things!  :) --Eabrace 03:34, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

I added something, it doesn't quite gel yet. Need to come back to it later otherwise, or: go for it folks. And no way you think you are illiterate DD, I think it's mainly the age and generation thing showing - I've had more time to read! (Roman Catholic high school in the 1970s, we did the Aenid!) Taosin 06:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Nice tweaks Agge *hands over TimTams* Taosin 01:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

The Ace of Spades

While I myself am rather fond of the Motorhead song, is there any indication through the story arc that this temp. power is in any way related to it? The power description itself certainly does not indicate any such a thing. The Ace of Spades has a wealth of folklore attributing to it the aspect of death, not the least of which is the Dead Man's Hand, to which the Motorhead song is, itself, a reference. This seems to me like a common error in which one reference is attributed to another reference of the actual source. Draeth Darkstar 02:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Essentially you've summed up my problem with this entire page. There is no way to be sure what something is supposed to reference unless someone has stated it specifically. —Thirty7 04:17, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

In the intro section, instead of saying "these are references", perhaps it'd be better if we phrased it along the lines of "these are things with similarities that they may have drawn inspiration from when creating this". Same basic idea, but with less certainty. Then we could adjust the rest of the page to trim down on all the "this is a reference" and "this may be a reference" type stuff. -- Sekoia 08:21, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Also, yes, I suspect you're right regarding the Ace of Spades. I found the edit where it was added, the the edit summary didn't provide any insights: [1] -- Sekoia 08:25, 14 April 2012 (UTC)