Talk:Settitle (Slash Command)
Badge numbers/listings
http://www.paragonwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Settitle_(Slash_Command)&oldid=106441
Something needs to be done. It hasn't been updated in ... years. --Konoko 19:48, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Taking the lazy way out. Trying to see if I can get a dump of the badges and their id numbers that I can then easily format and dump back into the article. --Eabrace 21:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- I just made this based on the info in their database. It probably needs some revision though before inclusion in the article. Notably, the day badges aren't included; they had them all listed as 9999. Also, the badges are listed for both hero and villain even if they only apply to one side. -- Sekoia 21:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Might it be better to just not include the list? It constantly gets outdated and we rarely update it. It might be better just to refer people to CIT, since they do keep theirs updated. -- Sekoia 21:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Or follow the Talk:Confuse example and put it on a separate page, which the subpage qualifies as. this --Konoko 22:45, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Placement wasn't my concern here. This information changes at a very high frequency. We never update it. As soon as they put another badge out, the whole page will be outdated and it's unlikely we'll get around to fixing it for another year or two. Meanwhile, CIT keeps theirs pretty up-to-date. CIT is clearly providing a better, more accurate resource; why not just point at theirs instead? (Especially since we are in the Titan network together.) -- Sekoia 23:07, 17 December 2008 (UTC) (Though you're right, it'd probably be better put on a separate page if we do keep it. -- Sekoia 23:08, 17 December 2008 (UTC))
Round Two?
I'd like to revisit the discussion of adding this list to the wiki. I had read the previous thoughts about just keeping links to the other sites that do the badge tracking, but there are a couple downsides to that. First, Badge-Hunter only lists the settitle numbers for Gladiator badges as a courtesy. Other than that, settitle numbers aren't used for maintaining that site at all. And second, even though CIT has the numbers listed for each badge, there's no reference for everything all in one numerical list without skipping through all the different badge categories.
My vision for this article would make it value-added rather than just a simple list, including the categories and Issues when the badges were added, as well as a way to indicate where known inactive badges would go, which CIT doesn't show. Maintaining it shouldn't be as much of a problem as might have been in the past because we've already been through the Great Badge Restructuring of Issue 13, and there's currently a large gap in the numbers where I'm betting the Going Rogue badges will go. Even if there's some shifting that's needed later on, large numbers of badges really don't get added all that frequently -- mostly they're just veteran awards and events that get plugged into small gaps in the list.
So what do y'all say? Can we leave it in this time? --Blondeshell 16:18, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
- For a list this large, we need a semi-automatic way of generating it. If CiT and the rest of the Titan Network has the information we need in their database, then we just need to query it once a month or so.
- Also, my new job has me helping end users craft reports. And often they need more than one to see the information they want. Therefore, several articles:
- List of settitle no group
- List of settitle group by category
- List of settitle group by Issue
- etc, etc, etc --Konoko 17:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
- The current way the table is set up is supposed to allow for sortable columns. I think it's broken at the moment because I have a spacer row where I left off my updates, but otherwise it should work. There was mention on the forums of getting some kind of a database dump in a wiki-friendly format, but I don't know if anything came of that. My guess is that the initial work by the CIT crew has to be done manually anyway, just like this would be. Like I mentioned before, there really aren't many new badges added under normal circumstances, so we'll be able to tell when that happens and know that the list needs to be updated.--Blondeshell 21:08, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
- My understanding in the past was that the settitle numbers were very unstable. Even low-numbered badges would often get juggled when new ones got added, for no apparent reason. Is that no longer the case?
- A lot of the ideas you have for this sound great, but why should they be done in the wiki instead of in CIT? And especially if we're going to write scripts that can pull the information from CIT... why not just make those scripts part of CIT and let people interact with it there? This really, really sounds like a great set of features for CIT. Maybe someone should take these ideas to the forums and see what feedback the CIT crew has? If they don't have the interest or manpower for making these ideas happen in CIT, then I'd be much more open to the possibility of implementing some of it here. But for now, it really doesn't seem to me that the wiki is the best tool for this job. -- Sekoia 23:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
- For the record, I am not changing my vote from the last time. IMO, CIT does this better than we do/could, and CIT is a sister-site to Paragon Wiki, on the same Titan Network that we are on. Unless it's ridiculously simple to do, just link to CIT instead. ~ User:Aggelakis/Sig1 02:58, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
- I've only recently started trying to understand the settitle numbering structure, so I can't speak from experience about how much things might have moved around in the past. I would guess that, if older badges did move around, they stayed within the same issue bloc order, because the overall badge listings haven't changed their relative order except to insert new ones. I agree that it could be really easy for the list to be naturally available on CIT because of the other listings they already have. The only things that couldn't be included are the inactive/disabled badges. If nothing else, though, I suppose I could just move the list to my userspace so it becomes my own little project instead of everyone else having to worry about it. --Blondeshell 03:20, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
- CIT does actually provide an inactive badges list, though not all badges have a known number. So it might be feasible for them to provide a combined list as well.
- In any case, it sounds like the settitle numbers are only a smaller component to what you want to do that happened to be a convenient framework to start with. The overall goal for you is to provide a list of all badges, with information about each one including settitle, issue released, type (accolade, achievement, etc.), hero/villain availability, whether (and when) the badge was removed, etc., is that correct? If so, I think most of that is wiki-doable, but I wouldn't recommend doing it manually. I'd recommend working up some sort of template that can be maintained within the badge article, like a short infobox, that incorporates all of that information on a per-badge basis. That way, all of this information is available there as well. Then, we can easily generate the full listing using DPL. Since it would be automatically generated, it would be automatically updated. And since the information is maintained within the primary location for each badge's information, they'll very likely stay fairly current. Meanwhile, we can keep an eye on the settitles for a few issues to see how stable they are now, and if they really are fairly stable now, then maybe at some later point we can consider including the settitles in those templates as well. What do you think? -- Sekoia 14:26, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
- http://wiki.cohtitan.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Settitle_(Slash_Command)/listing&oldid=106447
- 715 Tourist Badge Visitor Badge
- When did Tourist change from 715 to 1014? --Konoko 21:42, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
- There was a good chunk of the list that got bumped down several hundred spots recently, or not too long ago, to make room for these new exploration badges and (I'm assuming) all the Going Rogue content that will be added. In fact, even that link to CIT is out-of-date because the actual current number for Tourist is 1215. --Blondeshell 01:19, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Assumption 1
CiT has settitle numbers updated more frequently. If user wants settitle for particular badge, refer there.
solution 1
Add FAQ
FAQ
- Where can I find the settitle number for a particular badge?
- Find the badge and goto its City Info Tracker page.
- Badge
- CoH_Achievement_Badges
- Tourist_Badge
- Under External Links:
- Which points to http://cit.cohtitan.com/badgedetail/150
- And CiT has SetTitle #: 1014
- Why aren't the settitle numbers listed here?
- Nearly every Issue there have been additional badges added that moved their settitle numbers around.
- City Info Tracker has a far more up to date listing of settitle numbers that cannot be easily added to this wiki.
solution 2
Include 'guide'
Example
Tourist Badge has a settitle of 1014 as reported by City Info Tracker's Tourist Badge page.
- /settitle 1014
Information and table structure
Sortable tables would be nice
| Settitle# | Badge name | Category | Issue | Active |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| ### | [[Badge name]] | [[Achievement]] | [[Issue 5]] | Y/N |
--Konoko 17:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Now they are sortable. ~ User:Aggelakis/Sig1 02:39, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
Settitle Numbers Demystified
Here's the lowdown on what settitle numbers mean and why they shift around.
When the devs make a new build, there are some automated processes that generate the .bin files from their source files, which are basically comma delimited lists, probably exported from Excel if what we heard from the powers group is any indication. The automated part gathers up all of the files and compiles them into a binary format that the game can use.
At game startup, it reads badges.bin into an array in memory. This array contains the category, the ID number (see below), hero and villain display names, and the icon. It does not contain the badge description text -- that is one of the very few localized strings in the game that is stored completely server-side.
The number you give to the /settitle command is an index into this array in memory. That means that whatever order the badges happen to be physically stored in the file, that's the number you need to give it. This order is also used for displaying the badges on the information screen.
When new badges are added, they often come in batches. Each batch is stored in a different source file. The naming scheme for these source files has changed a few times and isn't completely consistent. The program that creates the .bin file scoops up all of the source files in alphabetical order and generates the resulting table. This is why the settitle order seems to make no logical sense, because we are missing a crucial piece of information: the source file name that each badge is defined in. Within each source file, the order of the badges is just whatever order the dev who wrote it put them in, but that set of badges will always be stable relative to each other.
Here's the full list:
| Starting Badge | Ending Badge | Source File |
|---|---|---|
| Dreamwalker (0) | Triumphant (205) | BADGES_COVUPDATE.DEF |
| EarlyPowerGrantBadge* (206) | GotRespec* (221) | BADGES_UPDATE11.DEF |
| Marshal (222) | ComboCostume* (304) | BADGES_UPDATE12.DEF |
| Trustworthy (305) | Partygoer (408) | BADGES_UPDATE13.DEF |
| InventionPopUpA* (409) | Merrymaker (488) | BADGES_UPDATE14.DEF |
| Vanguard Operative (489) | Master At Arms (527) | BADGES_UPDATE15.DEF |
| All For One, One For All (528) | Entertainer (636) | BADGES_UPDATE16.DEF |
| Dark Fiend (637) | CI_City_Representative_Cape_AP* (651) | BADGES_UPDATE1600.DEF |
| VillainEAT_SL1_Comp* (652) | Surefooted (716) | BADGES_UPDATE17.DEF |
| FirstMeritReward* (717) | Jubilant (933) | BADGES_UPDATE18.DEF |
| Exultant (934) | Veteran96a* (1060) | BADGES_UPDATE1800.DEF |
| FirstDayJobGlobal* (1061) | Meticulous (1296) | BADGES_UPDATE1850.DEF |
| Column Breaker (1297) | Vanguard_Sigil_CC* (1335) | BADGES_UPDATE19.DEF |
| Weapon Master (1336) | Partner (1520) | BADGES_UPDATE1900.DEF |
| Burkholder's Bane (1521) | Heart of the Hamidon (1724) | BADGES_UPDATE2.DEF |
| Land, Sea & Air (1725) | PraetorianInvasionRecheck* (1743) | BADGES_UPDATE2000.DEF |
| Strawweight Champion (1744) | Celebrant (1754) | BADGES_UPDATE4.DEF |
| Volunteer Firefighter (1755) | Geas of the Kind Ones (1809) | BADGES_UPDATE5.DEF |
* Hidden badge used for internal tracking
In that table you can see the order is based on the (hidden) filename of the source file that the badges are defined in. If they continue the 4-digit current naming scheme based on issue number, then 1744+ will be shifted back with every new issue or sub-issue, until issue 40.
Badges are also sometimes added into the game ahead of the issue in which they become available to players. Veteran Badges especially are done this way.
- Each badge does have a field called "Index", which is an ID number that uniquely identifies the badge. These seem to be assigned when each badge is created, however they are not visible to us in any way except by digging in the files. As far as I can tell they seem to only be used by the server, and by client-server communication (which is why your title stays the same even when you log in after the settitle numbers have changed). So they really don't help us, except perhaps as a database key resistant to badge name changes, since they are stable. Why they didn't just use the ID number as the settitle parameter I have no idea, but this is what we have to work with.
--Supa Troll 18:15, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Updates for Homecoming
Based on the work that I have done helping create and maintain the badge database for the Badger badge tracking site (see this forum post: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/11333-new-badge-tracker/), as well as the additional work I put in verifying badge settitle IDs, names, and badge_grant tag info (see this forum post: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/16441-badge-settitle-id-name-and-tag-master-list/), I've modified and updated the settitle table to include the final results of that work.
My rough work outline was as follows. I started with a snapshot of the Badger badge database (downloaded 5/19/2020 from here: https://github.com/n15g/coh-content-db-homecoming). Using a custom Python script I parsed that data to develop a database containing each settitle ID as well as each badge name associated with each settitle ID. This was the best location for names that were listed according to gender and alignment. I also parsed the existing settitle table (prior to my update) from this page to add the Issue number to the database. I then thoroughly checked the Issue 25 and Issue 26 patch notes, as well as Homecoming forum posts related to new badges and the older version of the Badge tracker spreadsheet (detailed here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/1331-badge-tracker-spreadsheet/) to find any badges that were updated in Issue 25 or 26. I manually updated (via a parsed CSV file) those Issue 25 and 26 badges in the database. This left a group of about 25 outstanding badges whose names in the existing settitle table had changed slightly on Homecoming and for which I had to manually update the Issue number.
I then took my previously-developed dataset of settitle IDs and badge tags (described here: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/16441-badge-settitle-id-name-and-tag-master-list/) and parsed it to associate the badge_grant tag with each settitle ID in the database I was building to update this page. With that done, I manually added the 'Once the Victor' through 'Nine Times the Victor' badges, as well as the 'Beta Tester' and the various unused badges which track rejection of recipe and inspiration drops, because none of those badges exist in the Badger database.
The last and most important step was testing. I double- and triple-checked the data for any errors or omissions. Thank goodness for the 'Show Preview' button. Initially I listed every badge name under every category, but after some testing I decided to replace 'duplicate' names with a dash mark (-), because that made the table far less cluttered and much easier to read. It also allows the user to sort the badge name categories (other than hero male) to see any badges that are unique to that particular gender/alignment combo, which I think is a nice feature.
I did read through the entire discussion page thoroughly before proceeding, to make sure I understood the issues the previous contributors faced. Much of the discussion seemed centered around the data source and who should host it (since the old City Info Tracker used to track a similar set of data). I decided that since I was intimately familiar with, and a primary maintainer of, the badge database that feeds the Badger site, as well as having done other work verifying badge names, settitle IDs, and badge_grant tags in-game (as I described in the first paragraph), that I had enough data at hand to be able to update and improve the data table on this page.
I did notice that there had been a wide-scale re-ordering of badges in the time between the last update of this data table and the badges as they exist now on Homecoming. The table prior to my update listed a number of badges categorized as unused, removed, or never added. The Homecoming devs repurposed some of these badges into existing badges, but unfortunately since the settitle IDs were re-ordered, it was not possible to determine the new settitle IDs for these badges. Therefore, I filled in the blanks left by these unused, removed, or never added badges by categorizing them as 'Unknown'. If I am ever able to fill in some of the existing blanks with better information, I will do so.
As a side note, in looking at the ordering by settitle as it relates to issue numbers, it looks like the Homecoming devs made an effort to re-order the badges sequentially according to the issue in which they were introduced. Another issue that previous contributors faced is that the badge settitles were re-ordered often, making it difficult to maintain the dataset. Given how the Homecoming devs seem to have approached the issue, I am hopeful that badge re-ordering will be minimal, and that new/updated badges will simply be added to the bottom of the list, and/or inserted into the gaps currently occupied by the 'Unknown' badges.
There are a number of badges in the table whose links are broken (names will display as red text), either because those badge pages do not exist on the wiki, or because the names have changed slightly during Homecoming and the links to those pages need to be re-established. As noted on the main page, the badge names listed in the table are listed exactly as they appear in-game, so anyone updating those badge pages should use the spelling as it appears in the table.